Another Redhead Against Racism

Son of Yet More

4th-Jan-2008 06:03 pm

Finally found a way to define a "minor" character, based on

spiralsheep's comment here.

BLACK AND WHITE MALE MAJOR CHARACTERS ONLY - ENTIRE SHOW

Counting recurring characters only once (except Pete Tyler!). A "major character" has lines in at least two scenes.

Black men, perish: 9 (64%)
Black men, survive: 5
White men, perish: 47 (53%)
White men, survive: 41

ETA: A professional mathematician kindly had a look at the numbers for me, and says that there's no meaningful difference here.

Black, perish (9): Mr Wagner (School Reunion), The President (Age of Steel), Ricky (Rise of the Cybermen), Solomon (Evolution of the Daleks), Rodrick (Parting of the Ways), Major Blake (Christmas Invasion), Billy Shipton (Blink), Lance (Runaway Bride), Morvin (Voyage of the Damned)
Black, survive (5): Clive Jones, Leo Jones; Zachary Cross Flane (Impossible Planet / Satan Pit), Kel (Fear Her), Atillo (Utopia)

White, perish (48): Clive Finch (Rose), Gabriel Sneed (Unquiet Dead), General Asquith, Joseph Green, Oliver Charles, Strickland (Aliens of London / World War III), Simmons, Bywater, De Maggio, Commander (Dalek), The Editor (Long Game), Pete Tyler (Father's Day), Strood, Male Programmer (Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways), Danny Llewellyn (Christmas Invasion), Chip (New Earth), Father Angelo, Sir Robert, Captain Reynolds, Steward, The Host (Tooth and Claw), Mr Finch, Mr Parsons (School Reunion), John Lumic, Mr Crane (Age of Steel / Rise of the Cybermen), Magpie (Idiot's Lantern), Mr Jefferson, Toby Zed (Impossible Planet / Satan Pit), Victor Kennedy, Mr Skinner (Love & Monsters), Gareth, Matt (Army of Ghosts / Doomsday), Mr Stoker (Smith and Jones), Mr Diagoras (Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks), Lazarus (Lazarus Experiment), Dev Ashton (42), Baines, John Smith, Mr Clark, Rocastle (Human Nature / Family of Blood), Professor Yana (Utopia), The President, The Master (Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords), Max Capricorn, Captain Hardaker, Chief Steward, Engineer (Voyage of the Damned)

White, survive (42): Charles Dickens (Unquiet Dead), Sgt Price (Aliens of London / World War III), Henry van Statten, Adam Mitchell (Dalek), Jamie, Mr Lloyd, Algy, Jim, Ernie, Alf, Dr Constantine, Jenkins (Empty Child / Doctor Dances), Alex (Christmas Invasion), Duke of Manhattan (New Earth), Kenny (School Reunion), Louis XV (Girl in the Fireplace), Jake (Age of Steel / Rise of the Cybermen), Pete Tyler (Army of Ghosts / Doomsday), Eddie Connolly, Tommy Connolly, Bishop, (Idiot's Lantern), Elton Pope (Love & Monsters), Morganstern (Smith and Jones), Shakespeare, Dick, Kempe (Shakespeare Code), Milo (Gridlock), Laszlo, Frank (Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks), Riley Vashtee, Orin Scannell (42), Tim Latimer, Hutchinson (Human Nature / Family of Blood), Larry Nightingale, Ben Wainwright (Blink), Padra, Creet (Utopia), Tom Milligan (Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords), Mr Copper, Rickston, Alonzo (Voyage of the Damned)

You can check which characters I've omitted by comparing this to the original list. I have had to make a few judgment calls. As always, your comments and corrections are welcome.

Tags:casting, doctor who, who lives and who dies?

Comments

4th-Jan-2008 07:32 am (UTC)

azicrow

Whilst yes I do have to agree there aren't enough blacks or asians on tv I do have to say that Doctor who is one of the few that have been more proactive in that sense, they did bring us the wonderful characters of Martha Jones and Mickey Smith and I think Russel T Davies is one of the few people not making a character and seeing them as particularly black or white, more seeing them as a character and then the actor that will best fit that role.

I'm afraid I've only really seen the new Who not the old one but I can't imagine they had a black companion before then let alone two.

I also think because the numbers of people are so widely different in their magnitude it's also harder to get a real analysis on it.

So I think although the numbers are different and tv probably will change more towards a more character based rather than colour based actor choice I do think Doctor Who and Torchwood are probably the forerunners of that.

Although I was ecstatic they had an asian guy (South Asian for all you US readers:)) who wasn't a terrorist or a shopkeeper but was an aid to the prime minister (series 1 - Christopher Eccleston ).

I do have to say that I think Torchwood and Doctor are currently doing a good job. *shrugs* Sorry.

4th-Jan-2008 08:06 am (UTC)

seeingred

I was ecstatic they had an asian guy (South Asian for all you US readers:)) who wasn't a terrorist or a shopkeeper but was an aid to the prime minister

Indra Ganesh, from Aliens of London, played by Navin Chowdry, and well worth a screenshot. ;-)

IMHO, I think the show is doing pretty well. It's got a diverse cast, including non-White major characters, and it generally manages to avoid stereotyping. There's always room for improvement; there are a few things I wish had been avoided, and things that could be done better; but on the whole, I think it deserves a bit of credit and some constructive criticism, rather than outrage and condemnation.

4th-Jan-2008 10:16 pm (UTC)

browneyedgirl65

As a U.S. reader ;-) I wouldn't consider "South Asian" to mean anything. The character you refer to looks Indian to me. If he (or his parents/ancestors) weren't actually from India, then he'd be Burmese, Indonesian, whatever. I don't know why, but we don't have a lump-term for what you UK people call (South) Asian -- Asian is our-lump term for China/Korea/Vietnamese/Japanese folks...

We're just weird that way, I guess.

4th-Jan-2008 10:21 pm (UTC)

seeingred

"Desi". :-)

4th-Jan-2008 10:26 pm (UTC)

browneyedgirl65

Sounds useful. Now if I could only get the rest of the U.S. to follow along.

But as an example of how it's sometimes confusing, you remember that poor fellow they shot in London after the bombings? The one that ran off and got shot in the chase? The newspaper reports were quoting witnesses who described him as south Asian.

And I couldn't figure out why that was relevant or how that would have tripped their profiling until I realised it meant he was more indian than asian (chinese/japanese, etc) looking...

I usually pick up on US/UK differences, having regular contact with those odd british fellows ;-) but I'd missed this one entirely...

4th-Jan-2008 11:06 pm (UTC)

azicrow

No we don't call ourselves south asian we just call ourselves asian but knowing that people in the US tend to lump asians as far eastern people I was trying to avoid confusion and obviously failing. Ah well:)

4th-Jan-2008 11:12 pm (UTC)

browneyedgirl65

:)
I don't know why we don't use that It's a perfectly good term if you look at the map...all of that is south of even the "far eastern" part of asia...

Well, there's no other recourse, then. I shall commence beating my fellow citizens about the head until "south asia" is recognized across the nation...

4th-Jan-2008 09:22 am (UTC)

tencrush

48 out of 90 is 53%, not 59. A statistically slightly more significant difference. Though I'm not really sure you can include Shakespeare, Dickens and Louis XV as survivors, with them having no actual chance of dying and that.

4th-Jan-2008 09:32 am (UTC)

seeingred

Why can I not do this simple thing?!

Ta - I've fixed it. Also recounted the dead White males and discovered there were only 47 of them. Sigh.

FWIW, if we leave out those three historical figures, that's what, 47/86 = 55%? Not an enormous difference.

4th-Jan-2008 09:35 am (UTC)

seeingred

Meant to add that with such a small sample size for the Black male characters, we'd need an actual statistician to tell us how significant that difference is.

4th-Jan-2008 09:51 am (UTC)

tencrush

Not significant whatsoever. I'm not a statistician but I can remember enough of my university education to smell that it means nothing.

4th-Jan-2008 11:31 am (UTC)

tavella

Yeah, you flop one death and it's within two percentage of the adjusted (ie, minus historical figures who couldn't die) number of white males. That pretty much tells you not statistically significant.

4th-Jan-2008 04:39 pm (UTC) - Doomed Dickens

Anonymous

"Though I'm not really sure you can include Shakespeare, Dickens and Louis XV as survivors, with them having no actual chance of dying and that."

Dickens is a borderline case. The story ends with the Doctor going 'and then he died'.

OK ... not an on-screen death or anything, but think of it this way: if there was a story with a black character and the Doctor ended the story with 'yeah, tomorrow he gets hit by a bus', the people who moan would count it as an example, wouldn't they?

I'm amazed that they don't count Sec the Black Dalek.

5th-Jan-2008 09:29 am (UTC) - Re: Doomed Dickens

seeingred

I cannot help smiling when

spiralsheep warns that statistics can be manipulated - since she started all this by picking out three stories in which a Black male character died!

4th-Jan-2008 12:38 pm (UTC)

doyle_sb4

Atillo (Utopia)

Didn't he become a Toclafane?

4th-Jan-2008 09:51 pm (UTC)

seeingred

That seems probable. Do the Toclafane all die? I'm so knackered from going back over that list that I can't even remember my own name, let alone deal with any more ambiguous cases. :-)

4th-Jan-2008 10:04 pm (UTC)

doyle_sb4

I don't think it's clear if they just get sent back to the future or get blipped out of existence altogether... either way, I'd count him as dead from the time he gets turned into a Toclafane (as I'd count Jackie as dying in Age of Steel, even if the particular Cyberman who used to be her had survived the episode)

Leave a Comment to the Entry

This page was loaded May 23rd 2012, 12:31 am GMT.